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Necropolis 2350 - Advance
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philth

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Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:32 pm    Post subject: Necropolis 2350 - Advance Reply with quote

Ok got the Necropolis book for xmas, and am dying to give her a try, so I open up her up to the first Plot Point adventure and gots me a little overwhelmed by the scope of the battle, but I still wish to give her a go.

I've never modeled any terrain before, and am an amateur Mini painter at best, but I'm feeling a little ambitious and think I want to attempt fleshing out this battlefield. So first question, has anyone else attempted to do so yet? If so any suggestions on how I would begin this undertaking? Any pics showing how you set her up would be grand.

I'm figuring styrofoam is key to making the hill. Maybe making it 2 layers, then buying the bunkers (after all I am an amateur, and they seem pretty available for purchase). If I did chose to purchase the hill itself, any suggestion on what I should buy? I estimate the size of the hill at about 30" x 23".The bunkers need be big enough to fit 6 minis I figure; about how tall are the figure flats, I have yet to purchase them. Now the trench system gives me pause, any suggestions? Something quick and easy, or somethin I can purchase maybe to take care of this?

That all said I also have a few questions regarding the mission itself. Do the vehicles that the PC's control come with there own crews, or are the PC's supposed to outfit them with the troops they've been provided with? The Rephaim have 2 Judea tanks hull-down. What does that mean? Where are they located? Lastly, the mission states that 15" in front of the ridge is all minefield, but the map only shows 11-12" to the hill. Does that mean that everywhere not on the hill itself is considered a minefield?

oh and Hi everyone

Wink
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TAG Wiggy

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Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Necropolis 2350 - Advance Reply with quote

Welcome to the forums!

philth wrote:
Ok got the Necropolis book for xmas, and am dying to give her a try, so I open up her up to the first Plot Point adventure and gots me a little overwhelmed by the scope of the battle, but I still wish to give her a go.

I've never modeled any terrain before, and am an amateur Mini painter at best, but I'm feeling a little ambitious and think I want to attempt fleshing out this battlefield. So first question, has anyone else attempted to do so yet? If so any suggestions on how I would begin this undertaking? Any pics showing how you set her up would be grand.

I'm figuring styrofoam is key to making the hill. Maybe making it 2 layers, then buying the bunkers (after all I am an amateur, and they seem pretty available for purchase). If I did chose to purchase the hill itself, any suggestion on what I should buy? I estimate the size of the hill at about 30" x 23".The bunkers need be big enough to fit 6 minis I figure; about how tall are the figure flats, I have yet to purchase them. Now the trench system gives me pause, any suggestions? Something quick and easy, or somethin I can purchase maybe to take care of this?


TAG Steve has created some Necropolis terrain, though not specifically for this battle. Head to the downloads sections from the main TAG page for details and instructions.

Quote:

That all said I also have a few questions regarding the mission itself. Do the vehicles that the PC's control come with there own crews, or are the PC's supposed to outfit them with the troops they've been provided with? The Rephaim have 2 Judea tanks hull-down. What does that mean? Where are they located? Lastly, the mission states that 15" in front of the ridge is all minefield, but the map only shows 11-12" to the hill. Does that mean that everywhere not on the hill itself is considered a minefield?


Each vehicle comes with separate Knight Vehicle Crew.

Hull down is a firing position where the bulk of the tank is concealed, leaving only the turret visible. It presents enemies with a smaller target. In SW terms, that would be Medium Cover (-2 penalty to attack rolls).

The tanks can be located anywhere you want. Place them near the front, and the heroes get attacked as they advance, but can also fire back on them. Put them behind the bunkers and the heroes get a nasty surprise once they storm the hill. Smile

The map only shows 11-12" due to space restrictions. The minefield extends out 15" from the base of the hill.
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philth

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Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the quick reply Wiggy, and kudos. I'm writing out ally and vehicle sheets for the battle now, maybe sometime today I'll actually start my real job. Smile
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philth

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Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

right, another thought on the scenario....sorry more rule orientated then terrain, but then again as a direct result of the terrain so....

Would you let the vehicles move up hill or just allow movement on foot? I figure the answer as just on foot which then leads me to the next question....should climbing the hill require a climbing roll or just cost 2" of pace per space or what?
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TAG Steve

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Philth, Welocme to the boards...

Hills are about the easiest thing to make so dont worry if you are an amateur or not, It doesnt really matter what it looks like so long as it serves the purpose.

It depends where you are as to what is available to buy. However styrofoam is the cheapest option. If you make your own hills it gives you more money to buy bunkers...
As Wiggy said I have done some PDF's for hills so have alook there see what you think and if you need to know anything else give me a shout.
Cheers
Steve
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TAG Wiggy

Triple Ace


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
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Location: I have flying monkeys, and I'm not afraid to use them!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philth wrote:
right, another thought on the scenario....sorry more rule orientated then terrain, but then again as a direct result of the terrain so....

Would you let the vehicles move up hill or just allow movement on foot? I figure the answer as just on foot which then leads me to the next question....should climbing the hill require a climbing roll or just cost 2" of pace per space or what?


Bottom of page 110, left hand column Smile
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philth

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks guys, somehow I managed to read around that section. Oh and by the way Steve your hill in the tutorial is pretty frickin' awesome.
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TAG Wiggy

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philth wrote:
thanks guys, somehow I managed to read around that section. Oh and by the way Steve your hill in the tutorial is pretty frickin' awesome.


Easily to skip a paragraph without intention. Don't forget to check out all Steve's terrain guides--lots of cool stuff he's created.
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TAG Steve

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philth wrote:
thanks guys, somehow I managed to read around that section. Oh and by the way Steve your hill in the tutorial is pretty frickin' awesome.


Why thank you, hopefully it is of some use. I think I am going to build a huge, massive piece next... well after the other two part finished...
The joys of doing up an old house whilst having a 3 year old and a 4 month old....
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Jordan Peacock

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Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 152
Location: Orlando, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Regarding making hills, and such, I recommend going to a hardware store and checking out the foam board insulation - AKA "the blue stuff" or "the pink stuff" over here. This typically comes in sheets that are either 1"/25mm or 3/4" thick. They're also fairly large; I happen to have a pickup truck, so I secure the sheet down in the back with some rope and some weights when I hit the road. For more conventional use (i.e., carrying in a car), you might have to have the sheet cut into smaller sections before carting it out.

This stuff is better than regular styrofoam in that it won't "crumble" into little particles the way styrofoam will. Rather, you can cut it either with a sharp hobby knife or boxcutter. The trick, though, is to make sure the blade is sharp, or else it'll make for messy cuts.

So, my preference is to instead use a hot wire cutter. Many craft stores have hot wire cutters in their floral sections - sold for the purpose of quickly cutting the rigid foam used for fake flower arrangements. The cheap versions basically just consist of a hollow handle/tube holding a couple of C-cell or D-cell batteries, a metal frame, and a thin section of wire that heats up when you turn the thing on. I personally prefer the sort that plug in to a wall outlet, as the effectiveness of the cutting edge seems to drop noticeably with battery power as the charge is drained. (And, what with the cost of batteries, I figure it's worth it to go ahead and get a better tool.)

A decent wire cutter makes cutting through the foam akin to using a hot knife in butter. You can also more easily use it to add texturing to the edges of your exposed "rock" surfaces.

For painting, I recommend getting some latex house paint. If you try spray-painting insulation board foam, it will eat into the foam. While having a rough texture might be desirable in some circumstances, you won't end up with an even paint job: the areas where the foam has been "eaten" will retract, and you'll see bits of pink (or blue, depending on the foam type) color peeking through your paint job. Therefore, some latex house paint is preferable for "sealing" the foam, even if the house paint is not anywhere near the final color you want.

Once you've given the assembled foam piece a good paint job (and have given it plenty of time to dry - especially important if your piece has any recessed areas where the paint will tend to stay wet longer), and there's no exposed foam, you can then use cheap spray paints (outside, away from the house!) to put down the basic colors and introduce a bit of a gradient (browns/black/grey/etc.).

Exactly at what point in the process you introduce texture via addition of gravel/sand/etc. is a matter of taste. If you glue sand or (unused!) kitty litter onto exposed surfaces of the foam before applying the house paint, the level of relief is going to be reduced (depending on how thick your paint coats are), but there's a whole lot less of a chance that it'll be flaking off. (However, there's a high probability that some of it will be coming off while you're applying the paint and gritting up your paint brush.)

For details such as grass, "flocking" from a railroad modeling hobby store works best, applied after using a can of spray adhesive to treat surfaces - or, if you don't care so much about even coverage, then by applying some ordinary white glue to the areas where you want the flocking to adhere.

For my own method in applying "grass" to terrain hills, I've got a big bottle of cheap forest-green acrylic craft paint, and I apply the paint to areas I want green and grassy, and then I shake the flocking onto those areas before the paint dries - and then I shake the terrain piece off over an upturned box lid so I can catch loose flocking - and then I can funnel the reclaimed loose flocking back into my supply, rather than wasting it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use kingspan, simply because it is all I can get up here. One company offered the extruded polystyrene for £30 enough 2 inch stuff to cover 8 x 4. Unfortunately, however they wanted another £40 to ship it to me... Evidently one of the main chain DIY shops sells the pink foam but unfortunately they wont ship the stuff. Pick up only...grrrrrrrr
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philth

Deuce


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I went yesterday and got some supplies. I purchased some pink foam, elmers glue, plaster, citadel flock, a pot of codex grey and white paint for the dry brushing, some grey paint from home depot for the base (not sure what it is exactly except the guy behind the counter said it wouldn't melt the foam, some cheap wood to mount it on, and a utility knife. I wanted a hotwire cutter but I was at Home Depot and they had no idea what I was talking about. I also went to my FLGS, where I got the flock and citadel paint, unfortunately they had no bunkers, and think I might just make them myself out of cardboard.

I didn't have a lot of time last night to play with it all. So far I made some rough cuts of the pink foam to get it about the size I want. Only going with 2 layers for now. I then traced out where I want the bunkers and trenches to go.

My plan is to first make some cleaner cuts, mine were more sloppy than sloped, and to cut out the trenches and the spots for the bunkers out of the top layer. also I'm concentrating on the front of the hill, the back and sides are actually the border of my play space. Rather than have them flat (and/or pink) I'm going to attempt to carve them like a cliff face. I noticed at this point a lot of people sand the edges, do you think that still a necessary step since I do intend on covering the whole think in plaster? Once I'm done with the cuts I intend to glue the top layer to the bottom, will the elmers do the trick or do I need a hot glue gun or stronger adhesive?

Kind of also puts the bunkers at the forefront of the project. I want to mock them up so the interior is 3x3 and place them to make sure I cut the space for them big enough in the pink foam. I traced out 3x3 squares but I didn't equate for the thickness of the cardboard construction since I originally intended them to sit on top of the foam. Also have to make sure they are tall enough to peak over said foam layer.

I'm going to try and grab a digital camera and get some picks up if I'm not to embarrassed by my hack job. Maybe I'll hit up ac more for a hot wire cutter.
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Jordan Peacock

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Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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Location: Orlando, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

philth wrote:
I wanted a hotwire cutter but I was at Home Depot and they had no idea what I was talking about.


You won't find a wire cutter at Home Depot. (Or, rather, I've looked, and didn't find one locally.) That's something you're more likely to find in a craft store, especially one that has a section for artificial floral arrangements. I picked up my first (battery-powered) wire cutter for $5 in the craft section of a Super Wal-Mart (batteries not included).

I did a quick check via Google, and there are a few pages with instructions on how to make a wire cutter, but I can't vouch for the reliability of those (since I haven't tried).

I've done some "emergency" work using a very old soldering gun (when my hot wire tool broke and this was the evening before a convention), but I really don't recommend that.

Oh yeah - and if you do cut foam with a hot wire, make sure it's in a well-ventilated area. It'll stink up a room in no time.

Quote:
I also went to my FLGS, where I got the flock and citadel paint, unfortunately they had no bunkers, and think I might just make them myself out of cardboard.


There's a lot that can be made out of thin cardboard! Ditto for foam-core board (the kind of stuff often used for simple presentation displays that consists of two laminated sheets of white paper with a thin layer of foam in between). I've gotten decent results from using some heavy-stock paper to make corner pieces to hide the joins where two pieces come together (at a corner). That's probably something I'd need to illustratre better than I can explain, however.

Quote:
Rather than have them flat (and/or pink) I'm going to attempt to carve them like a cliff face. I noticed at this point a lot of people sand the edges, do you think that still a necessary step since I do intend on covering the whole think in plaster?


I generally only sand a surface if it has lots of crumblies (from excessive melting with a hot wire for texturing) AND if it's actually going to be an exposed surface. If it's hidden, it's hidden.

Quote:
Once I'm done with the cuts I intend to glue the top layer to the bottom, will the elmers do the trick or do I need a hot glue gun or stronger adhesive?


I find Elmer's glue does the job, but I've also found that it's useful to "anchor" pieces of foam together. This can be fairly easily accomplished with toothpicks driven into the foam on the hidden sides. (Take care, though, that the toothpick is no longer than it needs to be, lest it poke a cratered hole out of the other side. If you break or cut a toothpick in half so as to make it short enough to anchor the pieces and no more, you may want to start the hole with the sharp tip of the toothpick before inserting the blunt, broken end.)

The premise is similar to "pinning" miniatures (wherein you drill a hole into the facing surfaces where you want to attach a part - say, an arm or head - onto a miniature, and then you insert a piece of wire into each hole and glue it there, thus making for a stronger bond).

Oh yeah - I highly recommend checking out the Tips and Tricks section of the Hirst Arts Modeling Site. Although a lot of it is devoted specifically to the use of plaster-cast pieces made using the Hirst Arts "Castlemolds" molds, there are some useful tips for terrain-building in general.

I can't find where exactly on the site I found the tip, but I learned how to make some passable rivets pretty quickly, if you're scratch-building bunkers or other technological structures: Basically, you apply little dabs of gel-type super glue to a flat surface (of cardstock or cardboard, not bare foam), and let them harden. Once they solidify, you can file/sand across the top to flatten them out. Voila! Rivets.

For sections of "grilled" surfacing, I pick up sheets of "cross-stitch grid" in the craft store (or the craft section in Wal-Mart). Some craft stores actually have them already in useful colors such as black or grey, whichi is better than spray-painting them. These sheets are easy to cut with scissors, and can be used for flooring sections (or sections of roof) meant to represent a "grill" - for ventilation, etc.

Quote:
I'm going to try and grab a digital camera and get some picks up if I'm not to embarrassed by my hack job. Maybe I'll hit up ac more for a hot wire cutter.


I'm eager to see what you come up with! I enjoy looking at projects and finding out how they were made. Smile
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TAG Steve

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Joined: 15 Jun 2008
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Location: Shetland UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would love to see what you are up to too.
My hot wire cutter is a games Workshop one that I have had for around 10 years. I am toying with the idea of a bigger hot wire cutter...
http://hotwirefoamfactory.com/home.php this place now has an outlet in the uk.
I too have looked at how to make one... the words be careful death is a possibility kind of put me off using mains electricity... Shocked
Kingspan has some advantages, but the main disadvantage is you cant use a cutter on it.... Sad
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daran

Five


Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Posts: 779
Location: Westgate-On-Sea, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me too. Pix please Jordan.
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