Triple Ace Games Forum Index Triple Ace Games
ARCHIVE FORUM - POSTING LOCKED
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

why ranged weapons?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Triple Ace Games Forum Index -> Necropolis 2350
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pansophy

No Cards!


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:04 pm    Post subject: why ranged weapons? Reply with quote

Hello guys,

I have read a lot in the forum and through the books - and finally tried some short assaults.

The problem I see -not a real one- is, why should a character use a ranged weapon in this setting anyway? I mean, a sword's damage is not halved and it does AP 4 as well. Even the Sergeants Knives (or daggers) have a better chance of slicing up a zombie or skeleton than their SMGs.

One could use a Knight with medium armor and a shield giving him total armor of 13 against ranged weapons (from the protected side) and just storm that Zombie frontline (SMGs do only 2d6+1 damage, AP2. Chance to be wounded is nearly zero). As far as the default stats for Zombies go, they are nearly useless in close combat (d6+d4 damage die, no weapon and the SMG cannot be used in melee).

So, what am I missing, where is the usefulness of ranged weapons in Necropolis? Shocked

The church did a good job in developing these nice blades - they should forget their other weapon research and continue improving the blades! Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TAG Steve

Artist


Joined: 15 Jun 2008
Posts: 377
Location: Shetland UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have read the Curia have spent billions on their weapons programme and suddenly the equipment isnt up to scratch. If you then tell the populace you got it wrong and possibly that the corporations actually have the right idea with their weapons, then it wont really go well!The other option is in a human (or zombie) wave attack you want to get as many of them as possible before they get into range, even managing to drop one will be one less that is trying to do you harm. Obviously this isnt an official answer, but it is the way I look at it Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
TAG Wiggy

Triple Ace


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 5112
Location: I have flying monkeys, and I'm not afraid to use them!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the forums!

1) Like Steve said, when the zombies are advancing you might as well try to take out a few with firearms.

2) The Union uses firearms, and the Church has had a lot of scuffles with them. Charging a Union MG team would be dangerous to say the least. Firearms are also useful for shooting heretics and Ordo Tenebrae.

3) Gang Up bonuses hurt. They also increase the odds of scoring a raise for +1d6 damage.

4) Nothing stops zombies from using Wild Attack for +2 to Fighting and +2 damage. Combined with the above, that's very dangerous. If you're fully outnumbered (4-to-1) by Wild Attackers every zombie is rolling a d6+5 Fighting.

5) Even the lowliest die can Ace repeatedly.

6) Zombies aren't the only troops the Rephaim have at their disposal. Last thing you want to do is charge an eploding zombie. Smile
_________________
Wiggy
TAG Creative Director
Check us out on Facebook for all the latest news!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
pansophy

No Cards!


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TAG Steve wrote:
The other option is in a human (or zombie) wave attack you want to get as many of them as possible before they get into range, even managing to drop one will be one less that is trying to do you harm.


well, my skirmish's showed it is best to duck & cover until the undead forces are in melee range. That way you would not suffer losses from automatic fire. It is more common that the undead kill your sergeants in ranged combat - because the dead do not need to halve the damage.

So stay low until the wave arrives - then a knight is nearly invincible and the sargeants have a good chance to survive the battle.

Things are different if the knights have to move towards the undead forces though. But even then it is worth to get to close range as soon as possible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pansophy

No Cards!


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Wiggy!

TAG Wiggy wrote:
Welcome to the forums!

1) Like Steve said, when the zombies are advancing you might as well try to take out a few with firearms.

2) The Union uses firearms, and the Church has had a lot of scuffles with them. Charging a Union MG team would be dangerous to say the least. Firearms are also useful for shooting heretics and Ordo Tenebrae.

3) Gang Up bonuses hurt. They also increase the odds of scoring a raise for +1d6 damage.

4) Nothing stops zombies from using Wild Attack for +2 to Fighting and +2 damage. Combined with the above, that's very dangerous. If you're fully outnumbered (4-to-1) by Wild Attackers every zombie is rolling a d6+5 Fighting.

5) Even the lowliest die can Ace repeatedly.

6) Zombies aren't the only troops the Rephaim have at their disposal. Last thing you want to do is charge an eploding zombie. Smile


1) chances are not good to survive their attacks - its easier to take cover & wait. Although medium cover will help ....
2) right, that's a point for you
3) hmm, good point as well. So far I was lucky to have them encountered at cramped areas.
4) even if they hit, they are unlikely to cause wounds
5) fair enough
6) exploding ... yes, that is a deadly one. OK. Very Happy

All in all I think it is not a disadvantage to play a knight armed only with his sword.

But you made some good points. I simply was lucky so far to encounter them on a 3 to 1 basis - and that was not a real problem at all.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TAG Wiggy

Triple Ace


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 5112
Location: I have flying monkeys, and I'm not afraid to use them!

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pansophy wrote:

All in all I think it is not a disadvantage to play a knight armed only with his sword.


A lot of the time it isn't. Smile Battlefield conditions will generally determine when it's more useful to carry a gun.
_________________
Wiggy
TAG Creative Director
Check us out on Facebook for all the latest news!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
derfinsterling

moderator


Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pansophy wrote:
well, my skirmish's showed it is best to duck & cover until the undead forces are in melee range. That way you would not suffer losses from automatic fire. It is more common that the undead kill your sergeants in ranged combat - because the dead do not need to halve the damage.

So stay low until the wave arrives


Which works fine as long as the knights are defending. What if the tables are turned?
_________________
Markus
The Sundered Skies Serial - full of spoilers!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SlasherEpoch

Three


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider what George Carlin said about flamethrowers:

"The very existence of flamethrowers proves that some time, somewhere, someone said to themselves, 'You know, I want to set those people over there on fire, but I'm just not close enough to get the job done.'"

The same logic can be applied to flechette weapons. With sustained fire, it's conceivable that Knights and their support troops can take out several zombies until the numerical odds are more favorable. Additionally, flechette weapons are effective later in the campaign when the characters start to encounter Dark Knights. Finally, suppressive fire works just fine on the undead, so it's possible to sweep several zombies and close ground while they're still Shaken.

Basically, any tactician can tell you it's much better to hit the enemy from further away so you can minimize your losses.

The other problem with closing into melee instantly is when you start running into Greater Rephaim, like mummies and vampires. Those guys can go toe to toe with Knights while their minions tangle up the support. Much better to sling grenades and flechettes at them from afar!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jerepp

No Cards!


Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also pretty sure that the sgt's knives are considered piercing and thus half damage as well. Which makes it more useful for them to use the knives for shaving and use their rifle butts for melee.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hellfire6A

Three


Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 270
Location: Spokane, Washington

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jerepp wrote:
I'm also pretty sure that the sgt's knives are considered piercing and thus half damage as well. Which makes it more useful for them to use the knives for shaving and use their rifle butts for melee.


One of the old classic bayonet moves is the "slash" move. Step forward weapon at port--extend--slash bayonet down from upper right chest to lower left groin. No the knives aren't used as bayonets, but the principal still applies.
_________________
Do everything in love. I Cor 16:14

SDG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hellfire6A

Three


Joined: 10 Jan 2009
Posts: 270
Location: Spokane, Washington

PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SlasherEpoch wrote:
The other problem with closing into melee instantly is when you start running into Greater Rephaim, like mummies and vampires. Those guys can go toe to toe with Knights while their minions tangle up the support. Much better to sling grenades and flechettes at them from afar!


My kids have tangled with vampires twice. The second time one of their ally sergeants took it out with an SMG. The knights had caused it to use up its bennies and the Sergeant hit it with a massive ACE FEST! Ace on the shot then he aced his 4d6 roll. He rolled 46 or 47 before halving (our family record to date). SlasherEpoch is right taking out the big bads at range is hard but possible and even if it doesn't take them out you may force them to expend bennies!
_________________
Do everything in love. I Cor 16:14

SDG
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pansophy

No Cards!


Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 12:26 am    Post subject: more questions ... Reply with quote

hehehe, now I see how these ranged attacks can be useful. Suppressive fire was something we tried against the undead, but it uses up ammo quickly (well, extras don't really care about that, right).

Oh, by the way. Suppressive fire uses 5 times the ammo indicated by ROF. Auto fire uses ROF times used ROF.

If there is a MG with ROF 6, that would result in 30 bullets for suppressive fire and 36 bullets for auto fire. Is that odd? I mean, is suppressive fire meant to use up more ammo than auto fire?

Or is is correct as it is, because auto fire is aimed at 6 different targets and suppressive fire is used only against a "smaller" area (med.burst template)?

Thanks a lot for your replies so far, they are really helpful. Wink
My players are usually not that trigger friendly, and our Cthulhu campaign isn't really meant to be (most "things" are immune to physical attacks anyway). So I need some more tactics in using SW for a military campaign to be able to guide the players and to bring in the enemy forces in a right way.

I especially have a problem with the first mission in the "New Budapest" campaign. How do you get through the minefield without having the mineclearer blasted and half of the sergeants dead?
And once you reach the bunkers, the only way to get rid of them is using a flamethrower through the firing slits (they won't leave the door open to invite the players to come in, do they).
Blasting away the bunkers with the tanks won't work as well because they are too much armoured.

Oh, and finally: is there any smoke grenade in the setting, or are they useless because rephaim can "see through" the smoke (infravision). I have no idea if infravision can be blocked by smoke. Can it be blocked by mist? Or by smoke from a fire (fire should block it, I guess)? Does infravision work in hot deserts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SlasherEpoch

Three


Joined: 17 Sep 2008
Posts: 202

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trick to surviving that first battle in New Budapest is to move slow and keep your head down, seems to me. You stand a much better chance at avoiding mines if you move slowly. Once you reach the bottom of the ridge, infantry can take complete cover while the tanks pound it out and cover their advance.

Bunkers are almost impossible to destroy. However, you can still take Called Shots at the zombies within as you advance. Your support includes 4 Assault Knights with Dove launchers meaning 4 attempts at -4 (including the +2 bonus from the laser sight) every round to take out probably most of the zombies in the bunker. The tanks draw the fire of Rephaim fireteams, while the Calvary MBTs take on the Judea tanks. The Sergeants are on mineclearing detail (sorry guys).

With a little planning and a little luck, it's possible.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
philth

Deuce


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
Posts: 87

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: more questions ... Reply with quote

pansophy wrote:

I especially have a problem with the first mission in the "New Budapest" campaign. How do you get through the minefield without having the mineclearer blasted and half of the sergeants dead?
And once you reach the bunkers, the only way to get rid of them is using a flamethrower through the firing slits (they won't leave the door open to invite the players to come in, do they).
Blasting away the bunkers with the tanks won't work as well because they are too much armoured.


I posted my groups play of that mission. check it out, hope it helps some.

http://tripleacegames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=464&highlight=
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TAG Wiggy

Triple Ace


Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 5112
Location: I have flying monkeys, and I'm not afraid to use them!

PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:28 pm    Post subject: Re: more questions ... Reply with quote

pansophy wrote:
Oh, and finally: is there any smoke grenade in the setting, or are they useless because rephaim can "see through" the smoke (infravision). I have no idea if infravision can be blocked by smoke. Can it be blocked by mist? Or by smoke from a fire (fire should block it, I guess)? Does infravision work in hot deserts?


Smoke grenades and artillery rounds are in the Update volume, along with lots of other goodies.

It isn't blocked by mist or smoke as they provide Bad Lighting modifiers, which Infravision is specifically designed to oppose. It would still work in hot deserts -- heat-producing lifeforms would either be hotter or colder than the ambient temperature as fasr as the game is concerned. Remember, it's meant to be FFF. Smile
_________________
Wiggy
TAG Creative Director
Check us out on Facebook for all the latest news!

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
This forum is locked: you cannot post, reply to, or edit topics.   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Triple Ace Games Forum Index -> Necropolis 2350 All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
Protected by Anti-Spam ACP